Legislature(2001 - 2002)
02/12/2002 01:36 PM Senate TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 222-REQUIRE SLOW DRIVERS TO PULL OVER
SENATOR DONLEY, sponsor, thanked the committee for their time and
appreciated them hearing all three bills.
He said SB 222 would increase the fine for violation of an
existing regulation, which is slow traffic failing to pull over
when they are delaying five or more vehicles. The fine would
increase from $30 to $200. He thought increasing the fine to a
meaningful amount would make people more conscious the law
exists.
SENATOR DONLEY said he thought all the committee members had had
the experience of what a frustrating situation this can be on the
highways when people drive below the speed limit and don't pull
over when they create backup. They already addressed it in an
existing law but one of the things this bill would do is post
additional signage to educate people. They are working with DMV
to develop a fiscal note. The commissioner made the suggestion
to post some signage as people are crossing the border into
Alaska informing them that Alaska does have this law.
He said the original bill had a requirement for posting
additional signs but while working with DMV he thought they were
going to handle that through the Executive Branch function. They
developed a Committee Substitute (CS) to increase the fine with
this new statute to give it a little higher priority. He hoped
the committee would adopt the CS.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt the CS for SB 222. There being no
objection, the CS C Ford 2/7/02 was adopted.
DENNIS POSHARD, Special Assistant to the Commissioner, Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF), said they worked
with Senator Donley and his staff and thought the requirement to
put up signs at certain locations was one they had some
difficulty with. Instead of that section they agreed to put up
some signs. They had no opposition to the CSSB 222. He said
DOTPF would be happy to put the signs up and to work with Senator
Donley on that.
SENATOR TAYLOR said over the last several years with the Knowles-
Ulmer Administration there are difficulties in figuring out what
is an appropriate signage to put along side roads. He asked if
any of these would exceed 18 inches by 60 inches because the
administration had classed those as billboards and actually put
an initiative on the ballot and the people of Alaska voted
against putting up state signs that were that large. He asked
what size signs DOTPF contemplated because he wouldn't want them
to violate the billboard law.
MR. POSHARD said they were talking about two different kinds of
signs.
· The first is a sign that could be placed at the first rest
area or at the border crossing station in a pull off that
alerts the motorist of unique Alaska laws they may not be
aware of like this one.
· The second is a traffic type of sign described by the MUTCD
Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devises. That manual
dictates the size and shape of those types of signs. He
thought they were similar to the signs being proposed for
Egan Drive that say "Slower Traffic Keep Right". It would
be the same type of sign except it might have some different
wording based on the proposed new law.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if it could have something that said "Slower
Traffic Keep Right or We Will Fine You 200 Bucks". It needed to
say something other than "It Is Courteous To Stay To The Right"
because that does not work.
SENATOR DONLEY said when they discussed it they envisioned it
would actually say there was a $200 fine if you have more than
five vehicles following you and you are driving below the speed
limit. It would notify people the law does exist.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked where it said driving over the speed limit
in the bill.
TAPE 02-05, SIDE A
SENATOR DONLEY answered it did not say that.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that was good, he did not want it to because
it was routine on the Glen Highway to exceed the speed limit.
The average traffic probably exceeds the speed limit by a minimum
of five and probably eight miles and hour coming into Anchorage.
He said enforcement personnel seem to be using a discretionary
rule of thumb of about three to five miles and hour. You have to
be higher than that above the speed limit before they are going
to write much of a ticket. As a consequence there isn't a lot of
enforcement done right at the speed limit. There are people who
intentionally get on the roads, drive right at the speed limit
and block all lanes. Because they are doing exactly the speed
limit they will plug the highway up for five miles. He did not
want to see that kind of conduct be tolerated by enforcement
officers. He wanted to see them pulling those people over and
giving them a $200 ticket.
SENATOR DONLEY said they have to trust the trooper in the field
to exercise reasonable discretion. They are giving them a tool
to use when it is reasonable under the circumstances Senator
Taylor described. He did not think they were ever going to be
able to write into a regulation everything it would take that
would substitute for a trooper's reasonable discretion.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he wanted to encourage them to use that
discretion.
SENATOR WARD moved CSSB 222 out of committee with individual
recommendations and accompanying fiscal note.
LIEUTENANT JULIE GRIMES, Department of Public Safety, said the
subject she wanted to bring up had been addressed. They had
regulation 13AAC 02.050 (b) which refers to the circumstance this
bill is addressing but it actually goes further and states that
of course you have to be driving under the speed limit and have
five cars behind you to be in violation of the regulation. She
said it appeared the bill, as it was written without any speed
references, could be interpreted to mean anybody driving lawfully
at the speed limit and gets five cars behind them is going to be
required to pull over. The Department of Public Safety (DPS)
does not believe that should be a requirement of a person
lawfully driving a vehicle. She did understand the concern about
people blocking the highways and blocking all lanes. She had
been on the road and seen that happen. But in that same
regulation it is illegal to drive in the left lane without the
intention to pass so there are regulations that cover both of
those scenarios. She did not think that someone who is lawfully
driving the speed limit should have a requirement on them to pull
over when they are doing 65 mph, which may or may not be a safe
thing to do. That is the perception of DPS, it might actually be
unsafe to require somebody to do that.
SENATOR WARD said she brought up an interesting point. He
described a two-lane road and there is a motor home on it with
five cars behind it. The speed limit is posted 65 mph but they
are going 55 mph. He asked if she thought they should not pull
over.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said the way the existing regulation reads that
person is required to pull over if and when they can find a spot
and that of course is the other difficult thing.
SENATOR WARD asked if she was saying if they are going 65 mph and
have five cars behind them then that is fine, that is the speed
limit and they do not need to pull over.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said that is correct.
SENATOR WARD said he thought she was probably absolutely correct.
He thought what the sponsor was trying to get to cases such as
driving from Anchorage down to the Kenai where it is posted 65
mph and people are driving 45 mph. He had personally witnessed,
within inches, fatal accidents three or four times a summer
because people got so irritated they finally said OK, I am going
to pass. It was very dangerous. He thought the sponsor was
trying to get to somebody going 20 miles below the speed limit
and looking around and having good sightseeing.
SENATOR DONLEY asked if she had the CS.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES answered she did not have it.
SENATOR DONLEY asked if on page 2, line 5 on the original bill
and after roadway they put 'at below the posted speed limit'
would that satisfy her concern.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said that would be a more appropriate version
but she thought it would duplicate what was in the regulation.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY asked how many miles an hour below the speed
limit is considered below the speed limit.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked when do they begin to impede traffic.
SENATOR WARD said to impede traffic you have to literally be
going about 20 mph below the speed limit and that is not what
they are talking about. He asked how much below the speed limit
is it before it is impeding traffic.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said they do not have a set number of miles per
hour beneath the limit where it becomes impeding but again it is
the discretion of the trooper or the officer on the road. If a
person is unable to drive the speed limit because of a heavy load
or the type of vehicle and terrain combined and there is a safe
place to pull over and they have five or more cars behind them
she finds it very appropriate they try to get out of the way. If
a motor home cannot do 55 mph and they are doing 50 mph up a hill
and can resume the speed limit at the top of hill, if they can
pull over then maybe they should but did they want to give that
person a $200 fine because they didn't. She thought it was kind
of wide open to say where did impeding start as opposed to
inconvenience.
SENATOR WARD said he had been involved in the hauling business
and knew if you are 20 mph below the posted speed limit with a
wide load you get a ticket so you do a lot of pulling over which
is a courtesy thing to do. This is addressing people that do not
know they are supposed to pull over. They really don't, they are
coming from somewhere else. He thought it was entirely two
different things. These people are just people who drive 45 mph.
LIEUTETANT GRIMES said the signage is an excellent idea because
there are a lot of tourists that come to town. Even though they
should pick up the paperwork at the border and read it perhaps
they don't. The law needs to be clearly identified so they know
it is against the law.
SENATOR WARD said they still have the motion to move the bill out
of committee. He said he had seen two motor homes flip over
literally because they pulled over onto Alaska's soft highway
shoulders. They are used to something totally different in the
Lower 48, they have shoulders that will hold a motor home and
they have rest stops.
SENATOR TAYLOR said the point Ms. Grimes was making is a valid
one under the law. Anyone who has ever spent time working
traffic knows full well they work off of kind of a rule of thumb.
They do not hold everyone to exactly the posted speed limit.
They get tight jawed about that when it is a school zone but out
on a major divided highway where traffic is flowing good and the
conditions are fairly safe and the cars are spread out if it is
posted 60 mph they are driving a lot closer to 70 mph. Take the
same drivers and put them on the two-lane Seward Highway and some
idiot is intentionally driving about five to ten mph under the
speed limit that traffic would flow nicely if he would just pull
over and let those others go on by. He said there has got to be
some rule of thumb that the officers in the field are using for
when a person is impeding traffic to the level they are dangerous
and causing people to do dangerous things. Officers use
discretion and judgment as to how they are going to enforce those
laws. All they are asking for with the legislation is if the
same officer would pull him over and give him a ticket at seven
miles above the speed limit why isn't he pulling over everyone of
those people that are seven miles below the speed limit with 15
to 20 cars backed up behind them.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY said if somebody pulls over and lets people go
by there is going to be a period of time before he can get up to
speed and he thought that discretion is up to the troopers.
SENATOR DONLEY said he had the opportunity to drive a rental car
in Italy and if you want to ever take your life in your hands do
that. He would be driving at least the speed limit that was
posted and yet cars would pull up right behind him and want by.
When there was a spot he pulled over to let them by and time
after time again as he pulled over the car immediately behind him
and the car after them would follow him off the road onto the
shoulder because it was such an unheard of thing in Italy for
anybody to pull over to let them by they actually followed him.
When they discovered he was pulling over to let them by they got
very agitated and mad at him. Then they would drive on.
SENATOR TAYLOR said on the narrow roads of New Zealand and
Australia if you get within a block of another car ahead of you
he is already heading for the ditch as a courtesy to let you by.
He said here people will drive down the road and he had never
seen a police officer in Alaska write a ticket to somebody that
was impeding 25, 30 or even 40 cars.
SENATOR WARD said he talked to people in motor homes in Soldotna
and the vast majority are not aware they are supposed to pull
over. If they did know they would pull over. They did not come
here to break laws or cause accidents.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Grimes for her opinion because he wanted
to know DPS feelings on the issue otherwise nothing was going to
happen after they passed the law.
LIEUTENANT GRIMES said she was 100% confident that if an Alaska
State Trooper came upon a vehicle driving below the speed limit,
even if it was five mph below the speed limit and had 20 cars or
30 cars piled up behind them, if that trooper could safely get
around 20 or 30 vehicles to get up to make a traffic stop they
would. A person may be warned about the law and may or may not
be ticketed, that is the trooper's discretion. She did not doubt
for a second if that scenario existed and a trooper could address
it they would address it. She said there is certainly no policy
that they don't.
Their concern is that they don't have an expectation that drivers
going the lawful speed limit, who are comfortable at that speed
limit, who are not breaking the law but have five or more
impatient people behind them, are forced to pull over. She did
not think that necessarily is always the safe thing to expect
from them. She said to hold those lawful drivers responsible for
the impatient and perhaps dangerous passing moves of somebody
behind them is not appropriate either. DPS felt this was very
enforceable. They have a regulation on the books that covers
exactly the scenarios they are talking about and when it can be
done she believed it was done.
SENATOR TAYLOR said, from his life experience in driving, if you
end up with five, seven or ten cars stacked up behind one of the
"lawful drivers" that is when you start killing people because
that is when somebody swings out. He said yes they are
impatient, yes they are speeding, and yes you can ticket them for
that, the problem is if nobody pulls that lawful driver over you
end up not with one or two impatient people, you end up with 20
or 30 and now their doing dangerous things on curves. He
strongly recommended to DPS, with the passage of this bill, they
take a very serious look at greater levels of enforcement.
Officers have a red light and a siren that gets those drivers off
the road when the officer becomes impatient and he needs to go
someplace in a hurry. Nobody else out there has that
opportunity. All he has to do is hit that siren and that whistle
and start moving people off that road until he gets to the guy up
front and then nail him with a $200 fine. That driver is going
to go home and tell all his friends and neighbors.
CHAIRMAN COWDERY said there was no objection and moved CSSB 222
(TRA) out of committee.
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